Filed under: beauty, bitch, chivalry, college women, double standards, Feminism, feminists, image of women, male privilege, men, misogyny, objectification of women, porn industry
I’ve come to the conclusion that no matter if I had fuller breasts and long, golden hair that ran out my head, I wouldn’t make a very nice woman.
It doesn’t matter if you give me a uterus, or different sets of chromosomes, or even if you made me smell nicer, or stay cleaner, I wouldn’t make a nice woman.
Hell, give me my own vagina, with its own well-built system of reproduction and centers of pleasure, and I’d still wouldn’t make a very nice woman.
I know this because I know that by the time I am 12 or 13, I will hate men.
I wouldn’t hate them for their biology; I’d hate them for their ways to looking at me.
I’d hate them for their leery eyes and roaming hands – and the way they refer to me, not by my name, but as “hottie,” “sexy,” “babe,” or a myriad of other nicknames used to objectify me.
I would hate them for blaming my anger and attitude on my being “on the rag,” when in fact it is their ways of treating me that makes me angry.
I would hate that they holler at me as I walk down the street. What, should I come over there, drop my pants and jump their bone?
I would hate that if I bring up anything that makes me upset about them, I am being a whiny bitch.
I would hate them for treating me like a princess, but instantly call me a bitch if I were to turn down their sexual advances.
I would hate them for looking at me at a vehicle for their pleasure, and not as my own complete person.
Even in their compliments, I’d hate them for pre-supposing that just because I am a smart girl, that I am unique.
I’d most definitely have trouble trusting them – for I would never knew if one was genuine, or came from a long line of those trying to get in my pants
I would hate them for not knowing what the word “no” means. It doesn’t mean continuing to pursuit me. It doesn’t mean I am playing coy. It means you’re probably a dumbass and I am not interested in you.
I would hate them for roaming at bars, even when I am talking to my friends, trying to break in to our conversations. Leave me alone! I am here with friends!
I would hate the drinks they offer as a way to “break the ice,” as if somehow I am a prostitute and they are buying my time with drinks
I hate them because they control the media and images of me are distorted to be the way THEY see it
I would hate them because images of my body are spread everywhere – some of which are mutilated, as a way to promote their products
I would hate the porn industry. I would hate the pressure they put on me to act “accordingly.”
I would hate that I cannot be myself, but have to compare myself to unrealistic standards.
I would hate the make-up, the shoes and everything else that I need for a job interview just to be successful.
I would hate that I must always be perfect, but perfection is not good enough. I am encouraged to diet more, look better, lose more weight.
I would hate that I am robbed of all that is me – that I am made out to be what the patriarchy wants me to be. I would hate not being my own person.
But, thankfully, I am not a woman. I am a man, full of privileges and free to live my life as I see fit. I am still raging mad.
I am mad that my friends, sisters, loved ones, potential lovers and future daughters are subjected to shit they’d never think of doing to a man.
I am piss-hot the people I love are viewed as objects and not people.
I am upset that most people don’t empathize with the people I love.
But thankfully, I am a man. If a were a woman, I wouldn’t make a very nice one. By 14, I think I’d be in jail for murder.
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America's Next Bill Clinton! 
At first, I thought this had to be a parody, but then I realized that you were serious. I don’t know how to tell you this, but all of those things you cite as being oppression for women are nothing like oppression. I say this as a woman who has lived in the same society as you for my whole life.
I think this sums it up: if you were a woman and you committed murder, you’d be out of jail in 5 months. All you would have to do is say you were abused. And all he would have to do to be deserving of murder would be to piss you off.
Comment by KellyMac November 28, 2007 @ 3:26 pmSometimes my head feels like it’s going to explode when I read about many of the world’s injustices towards women. That’s why I’m taking a break from reading Feministing right now. Luckily, the vast majority of men I have known have been much more enlightened than the ones you describe, so I at least don’t have to deal with the harassment myself first-hand very often.
Comment by Marcy November 28, 2007 @ 3:40 pmYou know, if your name was anything other than “a woman against feminism,” I’d give your argument some thoughts; but at this current point, it deserves absolutely no response.
Comment by profeministmale November 28, 2007 @ 4:25 pmFlange maggot!!
Comment by drex November 28, 2007 @ 5:14 pmWhat a mancunt. Grow some balls..
Comment by Billy November 28, 2007 @ 5:44 pmBoy, am I glad the anti-feminists have found this site. Only if you’d find me, in person, because I am sure none of you would have the balls to say anything to my face.
Hide behind your computer screen and spew your venom, because that’s all losers like you all are capable of.
Comment by profeministmale November 28, 2007 @ 6:00 pmRegarding the anti-feminist comments on this thread, I would like to say that I have found that a lot of men seem to feel VERY threatened — for what reason? I don’t know — whenever anyone starts to talk about the truths in the way men see and act towards women. I recently tried to put a stop to some extremely sexist posts on a forum I like to visit, and the violent response I received was absolutely overwhelming! I was immediately attacked and put down, first being asked if I was “dumped recently” (of course not), told I was a “hypocrite” for having a username like “MzStilletto” (because, as we all know, all feminists HATE high heeled shoes and are all head-shaving, bra-burning, man-hating dykes). Any attempts to explain that they had it all wrong, that women simply don’t want to be judged by what they wear on their FEET of all things, let alone any other part of their body, and that if it would seem ridiculous to judge a man by the shoes he wears, then it is equally ridiculous to judge a woman the same way…well, let’s just say that no one seemed to be listening, and I was peppered with a barrage of all kinds of insults ranging from “You’re a useless prig!!” to “You’re a F*CKING PSYCHO!” There is a WHOLE lot more to that story, but the upshot of it is that I learned that if you speak up, you will get ridiculed, put down, and dehumanized. I have actually been struggling with that little episode for a couple of weeks now, and I find it disturbing that it has affected me so much. “They” would like to me sit down, put up and shut up. But, usually, being told that has the opposite affect on someone like me!! (a.k.a. “bitch”.)
And I am certain that if your wonderful blog post above were posted to this forum that I speak of, it would probably be deleted, but not before half the members virtually screamed at you for “saying such horrible things about men”. So why is it that men, who enjoy this “male privelege”, turn into violent animals whenever they feel this privelege threatened in the very least? Perhaps I just answered my own question… Is the average man really that insecure?
P.S. I’m so glad you’re back posting again. 🙂
Comment by MzStilletto November 28, 2007 @ 6:25 pmMzStilleto, thanks. 🙂 I find that my male privilege can often be used for the positive because even though the feminist message is met with hostility, coming from another man, it’s more than likely to get a less than hostile response than if it were to come from a woman.
But that’s also my struggle, because if you look at it from a patriarchal perspective, I can certainly call these men out and have pissing contests with them.
If violent were a feminist value, I can be more manly than and kick most of their asses. If the ability to have sex with various women is a manly quality, and not one to just objectify women, I can counter with the fact that I can have more sex with women than these people …and the list goes on. But to get into a pissing contest based on the patriarchy’s notion of what is “manly” pretty much defeats the whole purpose of feminism.
So, I don’t know …
Comment by Marc November 28, 2007 @ 6:42 pmWell i’m still searching for my male privileges – I see female privileges frequently, but rarely do I see anything that resembles male privileges.
Still, if you hate yourself for being a man so much, why not just become a woman and then you can adore yourself all day long?
Comment by Marx November 28, 2007 @ 7:41 pmSee what I mean? Unless men feel that they have the right to do and say and think as badly as they like about women (including rape and violence), then their “rights” are being trampled upon.
Nice.
Comment by MzStilletto November 28, 2007 @ 8:07 pmI rest my case. Funny, because I speak out for woman, I should just cut off my penis and be one of them. Thus is the classic argument of a person who claims misandry. Interesting.
I am glad they are starting to find this blog. The more they say things, the more I laugh …
Comment by Profeministmale November 28, 2007 @ 8:15 pmMzStilletto, you have blatantly taken my words entirely out of context – how typical for a feminist.
Mr. PFM, I did not say you should do that because you choose to ‘speak out for women’, I said it because you apparently hate men… thus, yourself. Being a man is seemingly a huge problem for you, so you would be doing yourself a favour by changing sex (I meant by operation and hormones, not barbaric methods)
Comment by Marx November 28, 2007 @ 9:12 pmCheck again – I don’t hate men. I hate men who treat women like object. In other words, I love women for who they are. So, why the hell would I get a sex change? What purpose does it serve? Maybe in your little world, it makes sense, as does misogyny, but in my world, that’s a bit backward.
Comment by Profeministmale November 28, 2007 @ 9:21 pmAnd how typical for a “guy” (not “man”, because in my books, you aren’t one, really) to automatically toss aside any point a feminist like me has to make.
And you are obviously taking PFM’s comments out of context too, so what does that make you?
Typical.
Your comment reminds me of the childish “If you love [insert subject] so much, why don’t you MARRY one?!?”, only you’re taking it to the next level. And besides, your view is entirely faulty – being a woman does not mean one “adores” oneself all day, because being a woman means being subjected to all kinds of media which teaches you to hate yourself.
Comment by MzStilletto November 28, 2007 @ 9:26 pmYou know, Mz., what a good idea! I love feminists so much, I think I am going to marry one. 😀
Thanks for sticking up for me on the blog. It’s much appreciated. 🙂
Comment by ProFeministMale November 28, 2007 @ 9:32 pmMzStilletto, I did not cast aside your view – I noted that you intentionally misrepresented my words and implied a lot worse from them than they got even close to saying. Equally, I do not consider you a woman, I consider you a female supremacist who happens to be female (judging by the handle you’re using).
I did not take PFM’s comments out of context, I saw he referred to male privilege while not acknowledging female privileges at all. I made a comment that I have difficulty finding these elusive privileges, but in contrast I see many women using female privileges (e.g. expecting men to pay for dates, having anonymity even when proven to be a false accuser of sexual related crimes – despite destroying an innocent man’s life, etc.) If you want to talk about how the media teach how to hate, let’s discuss how men are always portrayed as sexual aggressors, rapists, violent & uncontrollable outbursts of rage and murdering for fun or killing children because we can – or, we’re simpletons like Homer Simpson whose own children out smart him often, needing a calming & steady guidance of an ever-enduring wife who someone brings the family together (because he can’t… he’s too stupid/abusive/etc.) THAT is teaching men to hate themselves.
PFM – you haven’t stated previously you are only referring to some men, you simply state if you were a girl … you would hate men. No clarification. You then went on to discuss how you have ‘male privilege’ while omitting that women have ‘female privilege’, like superior healthcare & funding or political pressure groups to act in your favour, how it will be assumed they will take custody of the children, home, a 3rd of the man’s income, etc. for why? Because she choose to dump in favour of a guy with a better career (or, oftentimes the ‘metaparent’ – aka the government free handout programmes known as wellfare)
Everything in life is two sided.
Yes, women have issues.
But so do men.
Unlike feminists – men do not blame women for everything wrong in the world. We blame some of the societal ills on them, yes, but not everything. We can take responsibility for our cock-ups in life, we can act pro-actively to try and make things better for others (not just ourselves or just our sex)…
Feminism is sexism… Read all you have written and change “men/man” for “blacks” and change “women/woman” for “whites”.
Comment by Marx November 28, 2007 @ 9:42 pmMore typical behaviour.
“…judging by the handle you’re using…”
Well, obviously here you have already “judged” me by something so small and insignificant that it boggles the mind that you can already make up your mind about what kind of person I am, JUST from the handle “MzStilletto”. I chose that name because I love my high heeled shoes. That’s all. It has nothing to do with anything more complicated than that. (And NO, just in case you were wondering, I am not conflicted in any way when reconciling my choice of footwear with my feminist beliefs. I just like heels, that’s all.)
And while I agree that men are protrayed negatively in the media as well (yes, even sexist), this is a blog about feminism and women’s rights. If you want to bitch about the way men are protrayed, start your own blog. And if you have a problem with the way men are protrayed as being expcted to act like, then I also suggest taking it up with the men who embrace this stereotype, the ones who love to act like simpleton buffoons because then they don’t have to use their brains or be responsible for any of their actions. And they are out there, believe me, just as some women are out there who behave the way you described. But as I said before, this is about women, not men, and not you.
Too often I run into men who want to take over conversations regarding women’s rights and turn it into an, “Oh yeah, well what about ME???” argument. Try setting aside your selfish agenda to listen to what people are saying; it does not always have everything to do with you.
Your statements regarding “women’s privelege” are fairly broad and therefore unfair; I actually don’t know *any* women who still “expect men to pay for dinner”. Some do, yes, but you seem to be saying that all women do, and that is incorrect. That reminds me of another contradiction; recently there was an article published (I think it was in the New York Times) about “poor, emasculated men” who have to “put up” with women who are financially more successful, doing things like “paying for dinner”. So, which is it? Do men want women to not expect you to foot the bill all the time, or do you want us to not “embarass” you in public by using our own hard-earned money to buy you a nice dinner? It is these contradictions, among many others, that keep both genders confused about the roles they are expected to maintain.
I say we should all just reject those gender role expectations (both about ourselves AND about each other) and try to act like human beings and see where that takes us. Both of us. All of us!
Comment by MzStilletto November 28, 2007 @ 10:06 pmMan up, nancy.
Comment by Alexandra November 28, 2007 @ 10:08 pmOh, and I welcome the folks over at misandry.com. You losers really do humor me. Glad to see you’ve found the time, in between whining and hating women, to find this blog.
Please, do link me to you. After all, aren’t I public enemy number 1? When a woman complains about you, oh, it must be because “her pussy hurts.” What about me, huh? I start complaining and …oh, I get it, I must have had “experiences” with other men that make me hate men.
No, I hate most men because you guys are idiots. That’s the bottom line. So, deal with it.
Comment by profeministmale November 28, 2007 @ 10:46 pmNah — it’s just because “your pussy hurts,” too.
Comment by Adrian November 29, 2007 @ 5:00 amMzStilletto, I meant I gathered you were female judging by your handle – nothing more. I have to say, I agree with a fair bit of your last post. As for PFM, he is simply a guy with serious issues toward ‘most’ men (which is down from the initial ‘all man’ but up from the ‘some men’ – I do wish he’d make up his mind).
Comment by Marx November 29, 2007 @ 11:23 amFeminists are cunts. And so are all of you!
Comment by hsdkjfghfj November 29, 2007 @ 12:24 pmPro-feminist men are traitors and do not deserve to live. And feminist women are out to get power for themselves. So shut the fuck up.
I don’t want any discussion with profeministmale
Comment by michael savell November 29, 2007 @ 12:57 pmbecause he is not discussing issues just feelings
and how a man can feel like a woman is difficult to relate to and not a valid subject.
I would be interested to read more from msstilletto on how she defines the supposed ills done to women,some facts and figures and whether
or not attitudes,and what they are,mean a lot to her.
I can’t see the blog progressing otherwise.
PFM:
Thank you for your words! That makes me keeping my faith in male compassion (at least for a little longer…)
Keep on writing, perhaps some men will read it and start rethinking their behaviour.
That’s all for now, for I am very very busy with getting the power for myself, blaming men for all evil in the world and by the way, I still have some bras that need burning… *sarcasm… just in case some dumbasses happen to read it ;)*
Comment by NotYourKitty November 29, 2007 @ 1:31 pmMzStilletto, thanks again for your input. I’d like to address a couple of points you’ve made though. You show a lot of support for PFM, which is fine, however, there is some large element of hypocrisy going on if you care to look.
“And if you have a problem with the way men are protrayed as being expcted to act like, then I also suggest taking it up with the men who embrace this stereotype, the ones who love to act like simpleton buffoons because then they don’t have to use their brains or be responsible for any of their actions”
Similarly, if you have a problem with the way some women are portrayed, I’d suggest going to those women instead of the feminist norm of blaming the nearest man.
“…this is about women, not men”
I see your point, but what I can see of this particular entry in PFM’s blog, this is actually about hating men… he even gloats that *most* men are stupid, I’ve yet to see any MRA’s (especially female MRA’s) claiming *most* women are stupid as well as generally proclaiming their hatred for womankind.
“Too often I run into men who want to take over conversations regarding women’s rights and turn it into an, “Oh yeah, well what about ME???””
Similarly, it seems men cannot gather in conversation for discussion of their needs without accusations of misogyny, sexism, hate, selfishness, etc. Just look through this very blog and you’ll see. Why, even calling women a ‘pet name’ is terrible but women are allowed to call men all the names under the Sun apparently.
“Your statements regarding “women’s privelege” are fairly broad and therefore unfair;”
And do you not think PFM’s statement’s about men & men’s privileges to be a little too broad and therefore unfair? Or is that different and thus acceptable? I find usually that people who claim it is unfair to paint women in a certain light have no such difficultly painting men in the same or similar light (all men are bastards, all men are potential rapists, all men are stupid, boys are stupid, etc.)
Just thought I’d share those with you..
Comment by Marx November 29, 2007 @ 2:30 pm“I am a man, full of privileges and free to live my life as I see fit.”
Dear PFM
In the light of the above statement, and seeing that you have made the acquaintance of the Antimisandry site, can I draw your attention to a post I made there a while ago, on the subject of male privilege? I reproduce the salient part of it below. In the spirit of a genuine desire for understanding, could you, or any other of your readers, please be so kind as to provide an answer to my question?
Extract from post follows:
Again I find myself trying to understand exactly what those male privileges are. Those who claim that we have them, never define them. They just seem to be some kind of vague, ethereal things that we are all supposed to believe in, but which somehow don’t have any substance that you can pin down. Can anybody help?
All I am asking for is something quite simple: a list, however long or short, of specific, defined privileges that I and every other man enjoys. Honestly, I really need to know.
But just a few ground rules first.
To begin with, understand what a “privilege” is. It is not just something good; it is an exclusive right, i.e one that is available only to men and not to women.
Historic privileges that are dead and gone don’t count. It is no use to me to know that in 1836 I could have legally sold my troublesome wife. I couldn’t sell her now, and now is when I am alive, when I am supposed to have all these privileges, and when my life is being diminished as a counter-balance for having them. If I am told that I enjoy privileges, I want to see them here and now, in my hand and available for my immediate use. My grandfather’s privilege is no use to me today, and what my grandmother was denied but her granddaughters now have is not a male privilege either. Not any more, it isn’t.
Biological differences don’t count either. I don’t want to be told that I am privileged to be able to have an erection, or to be free of the horrors of ever getting pregnant. Those are not privileges in any sense I recognise; they are simply how Nature ordained us, and each sex is designed to cope with its own biology.
Simply being good at something is not a privilege either. So don’t tell me that my privilege lies in the fact that most MPs and CEOs are men. I put that down squarely to men just being good at those things. They are available to women if they are good enough too. And I am neither an MP nor a CEO, so that can hardly be a privilege to me, can it?
Final ground rule: be specific. Don’t just tell me that I get the best of things generally, or that life is better for men. Tell me exactly what good things I get that women don’t, and what precisely it is in my life that is better for me than it is for a woman in the same position – or that she simply doesn’t get at all.
I trust these ground rules are fair? Okay. Now tell me all about my privileges.
Comment by paul parmenter November 29, 2007 @ 6:05 pmPaul, here are MY rules. You don’t come onto my blog and tell me what the rules are. I tell YOU what the rules are. If you don’t like them, tough luck. Do I make myself clear?
I would direct you to a post blog a few weeks back, entitled “male privileges” or something similar. If you want to discuss them, I welcome the idea, but I am not following YOUR rules.
Comment by profeministmale November 29, 2007 @ 6:13 pmIn fact, I did you a favor and found the link.
Comment by profeministmale November 29, 2007 @ 6:15 pmSorry Marx, but your observations are mostly wrong.
“Similarly, if you have a problem with the way some women are portrayed, I’d suggest going to those women instead of the feminist norm of blaming the nearest man.”
We do. One of the mandates of modern feminism is to educate not only men, but women also. And I don’t believe anything I said would imply that I was “blaming the nearest man”. In fact, I might say that saying that kind of thing is an anti-feminist knee-jerk reaction, and an assumption a lot of men like to make to invalidate our beliefs. In all of my feminist reading, nowhere does anyone “blame the nearest man”. That point of view is unfounded and immature. I am sorry if you may have met one or two women who do, but then saying they represent all feminists is inaccurate.
“I see your point, but what I can see of this particular entry in PFM’s blog, this is actually about hating men… he even gloats that *most* men are stupid, I’ve yet to see any MRA’s (especially female MRA’s) claiming *most* women are stupid as well as generally proclaiming their hatred for womankind.”
I agree, but to be completely honest, it’s human nature to think that the person next to you, who has different beliefs and such, is an idiot. Sad, but true. It is actually my opinion that most PEOPLE are idiots, but that’s just my cynicism regarding the human race talking, it doesn’t really have anything to do with the man/woman thing. And aside from all of that, it is easy to see why most women would say that they hate most men. I am sure you disagree, but just like a white man cannot ever, EVER know what it is *really* like to be a persecuted black man who faces racism every day in some form or fashion, the same can be said for women. Unless you were born a female, you cannot really know the struggles we face every day. And unfortunately, the statements regarding “most men” are, sadly, too often true. I will concede that even though “most men” seem to have misogynist leanings, they are unaware that they are doing anything wrong because our society OKs that type of behaviour towards women, and that’s where education comes in. Fifty years ago no one would think twice about making “nigger” or “chink” jokes, and would just say that it’s all in good fun, but enough people finally spoke up and said that it IS wrong, and people became educated about why it’s wrong, and now (most) people are sensitive to those issues. The same applies to women’s issues, in my opinion.
“Similarly, it seems men cannot gather in conversation for discussion of their needs without accusations of misogyny, sexism, hate, selfishness, etc. Just look through this very blog and you’ll see. Why, even calling women a ‘pet name’ is terrible but women are allowed to call men all the names under the Sun apparently.”
I’m sorry, but I don’t really see where you are coming from with this. I do not recall personally ever doing what you are saying, nor do I know anyone who does. I also do not recall “calling men all the names under the Sun” either. Granted, if some asshole tried to beat or rape me, then I would likely chime in with the name-calling, but (call me crazy) I think it’s justified. For the record, I do not think all men are fuckwads. I think all rapists, sexists, wife/girlfriend (and yes, even husband/boyfriend) beaters and the like are fuckwads. And I’m sorry if this offends your male sensibilities, but the majority of those *are* men. Sad but true.
“And do you not think PFM’s statement’s about men & men’s privileges to be a little too broad and therefore unfair? Or is that different and thus acceptable? I find usually that people who claim it is unfair to paint women in a certain light have no such difficultly painting men in the same or similar light (all men are bastards, all men are potential rapists, all men are stupid, boys are stupid, etc.)”
Based on my experience, the main problem most men seem to have with this privelege thing is the idea that treating women like toys, objects, or worse, is one of their priveleges. The priveleges that all men *should* have are the same ones that all women should have, but that sentiment is often twisted and misconstrued by woman-haters and anti-feminists, usually to make us “look bad” and invalidate our beliefs. And once again, I have never personally referred to “all men” as bastards, stupid, potential rapists, etc. True feminists believe that there are a lot of good men out there, and also believe that when they are trying to educate men on the subject, that they are speaking to intelligent, thoughtful individuals. Otherwise, what is the point? But all too often our attempts are met with belligerence, ridicule, and sometimes violence or the threat of violence.
True feminists do not want to “bring men down” to the sub-human level to which we have been placed; we want to bring women up to the human level WITH men, and enjoy the same “priveleges” a lot of men seem to take for granted. Which is what every human being deserves.
Comment by MzStilletto November 29, 2007 @ 8:03 pmMen objectify women. How terrible. You talk like a feminists’ ventriloquist dummy.
Women also objectify men. They judge men by their material wealth, their social status and physical strength. It’s human nature. You can call it shallow, but it’s no reason to incite people to hatred and murder.
Most normal, heterosexual women can handle men just fine, they don’t need your help.
Comment by bola November 30, 2007 @ 2:30 pmI’m afraid you look at women too much through rose-colored glasses. Here’s a few quotes from the pink bible. http://www.pinkbible.com/
“A huntress must understand her quarry. The first mistake made by inexperienced women on the hunt is to treat men as equals. Men are simple creatures. If you deal with them as equals they will become frightened and confused”
“Keep your true personality hidden….by the time he discovers it was all a mirage, it will be too late”
“The victorious huntress has not killed her prey. She has harnessed him. If she continues to employ subtlety and guile, she can steer him like an ox for the rest of her life.”
Comment by bola November 30, 2007 @ 3:15 pmPlease,Mzstilletto,What privileges do men take for granted?Why do you imagine that you are in a sub-human level.?
Comment by michael savell November 30, 2007 @ 5:59 pmAll I see around me is men who are unhappy,all I
read is about men in society being treated like dogs,all I hear about is injustices,why do you therefore want to descend to that level.
Everywhere I see rich,confident women shopping for lifes little treasures,will you please enlighten us as to your specific problems.
If that’s ALL you see, michael, then you’re not paying close enough attention, and are likely only paying attention to the things that pertain directly to you, which is typical of the selfish, woman-hating type of man. All I hear you saying is “What about me? What About Me? WHAT ABOUT MEEEE???”
Get over yourself and try thinking of someone else for a change.
Comment by MzStilletto November 30, 2007 @ 9:13 pmm. s.:
what about women leading big companies? there are almost none (or at least the numbers dont match the percentage of pupulation). dont tell me it is because women are not able to lead or likewise stuff. they could, if they would not crash into the glass ceiling.
these women “shopping for lifes little treasures” you’ve mentioned: Well, I dont want to be reduced to this image of a shoe-addicted, credidcard-exhausting nothing-but-another-coustomer image.
Take advertising as an example: what do you see more, (halfnaked or close-to-naked) men in submissive poses looking like needing a f**** quite urgently or would that rather be women? I dont know if you’ve heard of the Dolce&Gabbana advertising campaigne, which showed a women being pushed onto the ground by a man and being sourrounded by several other men. Luckily it was removed quite quickly…
I dont know if it is the same with your country, but where i come from (germany), female university studends are still told (by their teachers, sic!) that they should not learn to much, because this would ruin one’s “value” on the “wedding market”. This is a sad sad sad example and i hope this does nor happens often neither in each and every university but it tells alot about injustice, doesnt it?
Comment by NotYourKitty November 30, 2007 @ 9:20 pmThanks, PFM. But no need to get so aggressive. I am not trying to make up rules for your blog; I am simply making rules for how privileges should be defined, which I believe I am just as entitled to do as you or anybody else. Unless your blog rules are such that you get to say what any word means, in which case there is little point in anyone who speaks and understands normal English visiting here at all. So I will stick to my rules which I believe are fair.
I have had a good look at your checklist, and have to say I am profoundly disappointed, because there is nothing there that I would recognise as coming anywhere near my definition of a privilege. But you have obviously put some work into compiling your list, because you come up with no fewer than 26 supposed privileges; so out of respect for your efforts I have taken the trouble to add my comments on them – still adhering to my rules, so you can see exactly where we deviate in our opinions.
1) Career wise, I can do almost anything I want, without having to fear that I can’t make it because of my gender.
You can’t do almost anything you want; you still have to be qualified or up to the job. You can’t walk into the boardroom of a big company and demand a directorship simply because of your gender (although if you were a woman in Norway, it appears you might be able to do something very much like that). It is also illegal to deny a woman a job because of her gender. And if you think your gender will never be a factor in getting you any job you want, I recommend you try becoming a nursery nurse, a midwife or a babysitter, and see how far you get before your gender becomes a very relevant issue indeed – for all the bad reasons.
2) When I do have children, I can still continue with my career, and won’t seem like a “bad dad.”
“Seem” like a bad dad? This is an argument from impression or opinion, not facts. Women continue their careers after having babies too, and get plenty of support and encouragement to do so – not least from the government. No male privilege here, then.
3) No one would ever use my gender as a way of insulting someone, as in “You throw like a girl” or “don’t be such a pussy.”
Ever heard the terms “macho” or “testosterone-fuelled” used in a derogatory sense? If you haven’t, you really should get out more. In any case, since when is the bandying about of silly insults a measure of privilege? Are women barred from using derogatory terms about men as insults?
4) I can almost always walk down the street at night without fear of being attacked.
Fear is a very bad criterion by which to measure privilege. I can’t see any connection – fear is just an emotion, and I don’t see how you can base a claim to privilege on something as personal, subjective and intangible as an emotion. If women take fright at all sorts of things that do not bother men, like spiders, or mice, or even their own shadows, that is surely down to biology or their own mental weakness. Perhaps men are simply more rational, braver or more confident. You also have to define the context. A man entering a dark alleyway in gangland LA at midnight will most certainly feel more fear than a woman walking down Oxford Street at the same time. But if what you really mean is which gender has more genuine reason to fear getting attacked at night, why don’t you check on the statistics of who suffers more attacks in public places – males or females? But then, you might not find the answer you want.
5) I can go to a bar and drink to my heart’s content, without having to fear I might get sexually assaulted.
Emotion and subjective opinion again. And partly biological – men can absorb more alcohol than women before they lose their senses, so are naturally less vulnerable. And are you suggesting no drunk man ever gets sexually assaulted?
6) I almost never have to worry about being sexually harassed by my boss.
Emotion and subjective opinion again. Wait till half the bosses are female. Shouldn’t be too long now; then we can have a fair assessment of who does more sexual harassing. I think it might be a close run thing. But that’s just an opinion too – you see I can be just as unscientific as you when I want. But seriously, sexual harassment in the workplace is an offence and women can take action to stop it with the full force of the law behind them. So no privilege for men here either.
7) My ability to do a certain job will never come into question because of my gender
Sounds very much like a repeat of “privilege no 1” in a slightly different form; and my answer is the same. Try getting any job that involves working with children.
8) My gender will never be an issue when I run for political office
Now a specific variation on privileges no 1 and 7! How do you know your gender will never be an issue? Or that a woman’s will be, for that matter? Who decides what is an issue or not? The problem for many women running for office is that they go out of their way to make their gender an issue (Hillary being a classic example right now). And even if it is an issue, is that necessarily bad for them? They play the gender card because they think it will help them to garner the votes of other women. If they are correct, is that not actually an advantage that such women have over men? Could you play the gender card to your advantage if you wanted to? No you couldn’t, because it would blow up in your face, and we both know it. That sure is some kind of male privilege, not to be able to use a tool that women can use use freely as and when they feel like it!
9) I can marry someone based on looks like it will actually empower me more.
This is not a grammatical sentence, so I am not clear what it means. I can only guess that you mean if a man marries a beautiful woman it will empower him more (than a woman would be empowered by marrying a handsome man? Or what?) Sounds like subjective guesswork in any case. How can anyone be empowered by the appearance of their wife? Do men with beautiful wives automatically get promotion, or win exemption from paying taxes?
10) There are no laws made pertaining to MY body.
Apart from the ones that can incarcerate your body (even without any evidence of wrongdoing, apart from a woman’s word – like false accusations of rape); that can require your body to be sacrificed in wartime (via the draft); and that can prevent your body from going near certain places where a woman does not want you to go (like in the house where your children live after a divorce). And what laws are made pertaining to a woman’s body? Do you mean those giving her exclusive reproductive rights?
11) I can go out in public wearing almost anything without being harrassed or judged.
Nonsense. You have turned the facts on their head. It is women who can wear what they like in public, while men are constrained by dress codes. If you think you can wear what you like in public without being harassed or judged, try walking down any high street wearing a miniskirt. Or a pair of jeans open at the top showing a hint of pubic hair. Just for comparison, try doing it alongside a woman also wearing a miniskirt; and see which of you draws the unwelcome attention of any passers by – or the police. Besides, this is nothing to do with privilege! It is merely social convention.
12) If I so happen to meet someone at a party, and decide to have sex, I would be viewed as being “the man,” whereas it doesn’t apply for women. They’re seen as sluts.
Utterly subjective opinion again. Whose view are you referring to? Whose counts for anything?
13) My sexual/dating history is not the discussion of the town
A variation on privilege 12; my answer is similar. Who is supposed to be discussing your history? How do you know? And why should you care?
14) I can pee standing up!
Biology, and not a very accurate statement either. Women can also pee standing up – it is just likely to be lot more messy. And since when is having to stand up a privilege? Surely any privilege lies with women who usually get to take the more comfortable option of sitting down?
15) I don’t have to worry as much about pregnancy when it comes to sex
Biology again. But in any case be careful; you might end up having many more worries than the woman, and more than you can handle, when you get slapped with a paternity claim and find yourself spending the next 18 years paying for a child that you did not want and may not even be yours. That’s her privilege, by the way. And she will get all the help in the world if she does get pregnant, while you will get nothing but blame and responsibility.
16) I am less likely to get an STD than a woman would, because of how our sex organs are built
Biology. And both sexes can take precautions.
17) I can date more than one woman at the same time, and society would not look down upon me for it.
Variation on 12) and 13); same response. Why are you concerned about what society thinks? Who is society? Who cares about your dating habits? What has any of that got to do with privilege?
18) As a child, no matter what I wanted to do, I had some sort of a role-model with whom I could identify
Far and away the most important role model for any child is its same-sex parent, living in the same house. But that role model is the one most likely to be missing from millions of boys’ lives. Girls on the other hand are hardly ever deprived of their role model – their mother. Male privilege? Get serious.
19) I am judged more for my actions, rather than what I wear and how I look.
For once I tend to agree; but that’s simply because men invest in their actions, while women choose to invest in their dress and appearance. I think that’s biology again; either way, it has nothing to do with privilege, unless you count women privileged for being able to go far in the world on looks alone, which certainly doesn’t work so well for men.
20) No childbirth!
Biology!
21) I am guarantee to orgasm each and every time I have sex
Biology. And women can have more orgasms.
22) No pharmacist can claim the right to deny me any medicines I ask for at a drug store
Of course the pharmacist can. There are tons of drugs you can only get on prescription. Exactly the same principle for men and women alike; the only difference is likely to be the nature of the drug – which will be dictated by – yes – biology again.
23) Even when I am acting within my gender role, I am GAINING from it, rather than being oppressed.
A wild generalisation. Try acting within your gender role and stepping in to defend an old lady being mugged by a gang of thugs (who don’t necessarily have to be all male these days). When you recover consciousness in hospital – if you recover consciousness at all – come back and tell us exactly how much you have gained. Then try comparing your gain with the oppression of a woman who acts within her gender role, seduces a wealthy old man, puts him in an early grave and gets all his money.
24) If I go to church, I can attend knowing that I’ll hear someone of my gender speaking about a god of my gender.
That’s only true if you believe in a male god, and belong to a religion where only men can be priests. There are alternatives. If a woman wants to believe in a female god, she is completely free to do so. So are you. You both have exactly the same freedom of religious belief, and you can both worship your own version of god as you both see fit.
25) I don’t have to live up to expectations of how thin I am supposed to be.
Neither do women. Unless they choose to make an issue of their size. And again, whose expectations are you or they trying to satisfy? And why?
26) No monthly menstrual cycles!
All together now: BIOLOGY!
Sorry. PFM, I have gained nothing from your checklist other than a clear impression that you cannot come up with any real male privileges at all. So I am afraid my search will have to go on elsewhere…
Comment by paul parmenter November 30, 2007 @ 10:23 pmhttp://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/alienated-by-sisters-who-simply-wont-listen-1234598.html
“Jackie Hayden has certainly lived a full life. He was involved in signing U2 to their first record deal (I suppose we must forgive him for that); he was closely involved with Hot Press magazine; he wrote the book My Son, with Phil Lynott’s mother.
He was also on the management committee of the Wexford Rape Crisis Centre for eight years, four of which were spent as chairperson. He was the first man in Ireland to hold such a position.
So when he says that, by the end of his time with the Rape Crisis Centres, he had “become thoroughly disillusioned with what I saw as a deeply hypocritical strain of anti-male sexism” there, and had come to see their attitudes as “fundamentally disempowering of women” thanks to a “constant tendency to portray the female of the species as helpless lumps of victimhood”, then he surely deserves to be heard.
Jackie Hayden is not some caricature bar room boor, after all, but a child of the Sixties, fully signed up to anti-sexist, anti-racist spirit of the time. When he speaks out now against the disintegration of the feminist ideal into bitter sectionalism, it genuinely is more in sorrow than in anger.
Will Irish feminists listen to the advice of an old friend any more carefully than they do to those they see as their enemies? It’s doubtful.
Feminism long ago retreated into its shell, dismissing all criticism as a misogynistic backlash — which is why it is more like a cult, a cabalistic inner circle, these days than the intellectual and political force for change it could and should have been. The sisters simply don’t listen anymore to anyone who doesn’t sign up 100 per cent to the catechism. In that respect, Hayden is most likely wasting his breath, but he does it with such vigour and honesty that we should just be glad he did it anyway.
One by one, he tracks his growing distance with the basic tenets of the feminist creed. That the media is responsible for violence against women, for example — he just doesn’t accept that as an article of faith.
Hayden acknowledges that those who are predisposed to hating women might be influenced by what they see, but equally he doesn’t turn his back on evidence that pornography can be a “defusing mechanism” for others. The picture is complex, and he doesn’t run away from the complexity.
He has seen, too, the way in which problems which afflict men have been sidelined and ignored, and no one seems to find it at all strange that they should be, while those affecting women are automatically assumed to be more important. He even details one shocking incident when, in a piece he had written for Hot Press, he mentioned the need to help victims of domestic abuse “to return to a life of non-violence that is the human right of every woman, man and child”, and was urged by the female director of the Wexford Centre to drop the word “man” from the sentence because it was “inappropriate in the context”.
He has seen how women are allowed to joke about men in a belittling and derogatory way and no offence is allowed to be taken, whereas men are “permanently under scrutiny and threat” for the slightest remark. He knows that relations between the sexes are constantly shifting and under negotiation — “Human behaviour,” he writes, “is not robotically controlled.” But still feminists speak as if all social and sexual interaction can be subject to cast-iron rules, with the severest punishments for transgression.
He also knows that women sometimes lie about their own sexual behaviour, and even about rape, but that’s not supposed to be talked about openly lest the blame shift from where it really lies: namely, with men en masse.”
Comment by bola December 2, 2007 @ 12:37 pmTo begin with, understand what a “privilege” is. It is not just something good; it is an exclusive right, i.e one that is available only to men and not to women.
Historic privileges that are dead and gone don’t count. . . . If I am told that I enjoy privileges, I want to see them here and now, in my hand and available for my immediate use. . . .
Biological differences don’t count either. I don’t want to be told that I am privileged to be able to have an erection, or to be free of the horrors of ever getting pregnant. Those are not privileges in any sense I recognize; they are simply how Nature ordained us, and each sex is designed to cope with its own biology.
Simply being good at something is not a privilege either. . . .
Final ground rule: be specific. Don’t just tell me that I get the best of things generally, or that life is better for men.
Hi, Paul. I’d like to talk to you about privilege, specifically male privilege. According to Finally, a Feminism 101 Blog, privilege is defined as “the advantages that people benefit from based solely on their social status. It is a status that is conferred by society to certain groups, not seized by individuals, which is why it can be difficult sometimes to see one’s own privilege” [bolding mine].
I don’t know about PFM’s privilege checklist, but I appreciate his effort to outline some of what he thinks are privileges available exclusively to him. If you take a look at the original male privilege checklist (here), however, you’ll see that your “rules” for privileges either don’t apply or are, well, privileged.
The original male privilege checklist does not give credence to “historical privileges,” such as, I’m assuming, the women and children first rule of shipwrecks. And, true, being good at something isn’t a privilege either. However, what privilege checklists and feminist consciousness-raising seek to do is, in part, question why so many men are apparently “just better” at being CEOs than women. If those opportunities to be CEOs are available to women, too, as you say, then why is it that so few women are actually in CEO/MP positions in the US/North America? It seems to me that something bigger is going on there, such as, oh, say, preferential treatment of men that privileges their “talents” over the talents that women are socialized to have and develop and which are then seen as passive, temperamental, overly feminine, or bitchy. Women can’t win, and men do all the time. How is this not a privilege?
As for biological privileges, I agree that having an erection isn’t a privilege, but being biologically incapable of pregnancy is a privilege — because our society makes it easier for men to have sex without consequences than it does for women. As the definition of privilege notes, some things aren’t inherently better than other things; privileges aren’t “natural” because they’re socially constructed. If lacking a womb weren’t a privilege for men and having a womb benefitted women in this society, we would see women making the choice to become pregnant all the time and we would see more financial and work-related benefits for women who are pregnant. As it stands, the US (I don’t know how it works in Canada, if that’s where you’re from — there’s a lot of MRAs/”equity”-feminists from the great white north who say things like you’re saying here) has comparatively poor benefits for women who are pregnant. It is clearly not a privilege to be pregnant in the US. Likewise, it is clearly a privilege to be male when it comes to reproduction: yes, you may have the possibility of dealing with a paternity suit (if you’re taking responsibility for where you put your penis and how, then this shouldn’t be a problem), but for the most part, the extent of your responsibility when it comes to fucking is keeping yourself safe from STDs, if even that, since men are less susceptible to most of the more dangerous STDs when it comes to penis-in-vagina sex. When heterosexual women have sex with men, the women are the ones who have to deal with it if the condom breaks — not the men they sleep with. And then, if they choose to get an abortion (so as not to slap anyone with a paternity suit), they have to deal with right-wingers protesting outside Planned Parenthood and telling them they’re whores for getting pregnant — where’s the dude in all this? Oh, right: absent. If they choose not to have an abortion and carry the fetus to term, they have to deal with the likes of you leaving them alone to deal with the baby you helped create.
My point is that just because you “don’t recognize” biology as privilege doesn’t mean that privilege based on biology doesn’t exist.
Comment by L December 2, 2007 @ 6:21 pm‘My point is that just because you “don’t recognize” biology as privilege doesn’t mean that privilege based on biology doesn’t exist.’
Like exclusive reproduction rights?
Comment by Exposing Feminism December 23, 2007 @ 4:07 pmLol. Funny boy. When a man calls a woman ”sexy”, ”hottie”, or whatever, it’s because he might not know her name, and it’s a compliment. I’ve been called that by a few girls. It made me [i]happy[/i], not [i]angry[/i].
”I would hate the drinks they offer as a way to “break the ice,” as if somehow I am a prostitute and they are buying my time with drinks”
[b]It’s called [i]being nice[/i]. Try it sometime.[/b]
”I hate them because they control the media and images of me are distorted to be the way THEY see it”
[b] http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1816776.ece [/b]
”I would hate them for blaming my anger and attitude on my being “on the rag,” when in fact it is their ways of treating me that makes me angry.”
[b] What if, just what if, she’s the one with the ”attitude” first.[/b]
It gets even [i]more[/i] pathetic:
”I would hate them for looking at me at a vehicle for their pleasure, and not as my own complete person.”
Women do not do this?
”Even in their compliments, I’d hate them for pre-supposing that just because I am a smart girl, that I am unique.”
Err…women think, when they meet a ”good” man, that he is unique. NEXT!
”I’d most definitely have trouble trusting them – for I would never knew if one was genuine, or came from a long line of those trying to get in my pants”
Yes, and men should be worried about women using them for their $$$? LOL! Your [i]own statements[/i] are sexist and can be flipped around.
Keep trying. Maybe in time, you’ll succeed making a valid point.
P.S. As for your first comment to KellyMac: yes, she’s a anti-feminist woman. You’re a pro-feminist man. You’re point? What’s the point of making a comment to say you won’t respond to her comment?
Comment by dnxx1 December 26, 2007 @ 3:22 ambtw, those things are not privileges. 1 or 2 may be, but the vast majority are not. A privilege is a right benefited only by some. Nothing stops women from honking at men or calling them ”sexy” or continuing to make sexual advances. So it’s NOT a privilege. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/privilege
(It pays to look stuff up in the dictionary, eh.)
So you want to be the next Bill Clinton…you want to cheat on your wife, eh? What respect for women you have! LOL!
Comment by dnxx1 December 26, 2007 @ 4:04 amDx, grow a fucking brain, and come back and talk to me. The fact that the only thing that stood out about Clinton is that he cheated on his wife says a lot about you.
If you don’t know her name, fucking ask for her name. It’s that simple. Would it be the same if I were to walk up to you and call you, “overweight, uneducated, smelly, idiotic asshole?” Hey, I don’t know your name.
And why do you have to buy random women drinks to be nice? Why can’t you just come over and introduce yourself? They’re capable of making their own money and paying for their own drinks. And since when did you decide what women drink?
Comment by ProFeministMale December 26, 2007 @ 2:37 pmI could care less about Bill Clinton or what he did. It’s just that you idolize him despite the fact he cheated on Hillary. It’s ironic you claim to respect women so much, yet idolize someone who cheats on them.
Even if they do know her name, what’s wrong with calling someone sexy? Since when do you decide what’s a compliment and what’s not?
I’m overweight…I’m a bodybuilder. Uneducated? How would you know whether or not I’m uneducated and/or idiotic by looking at me? Smelly? Hmm nope.
Why do you have to buy random women drinks to be nice? You don’t. It’s just a gesture of caring. Why do you have to buy chocolates to your crush on Valentine’s? You don’t, but it shows you care. Same for Christmas; if you don’t buy your friends anything, it’s rude.
I never decided what women drank, but you can ask her and then buy her the drink, which is what usually happens. Women don’t drink drinks they don’t like, especially from strangers.
P.S. You can’t ”grow” a brain. For more information about brains, go here: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/
Comment by dnxx1 December 26, 2007 @ 4:47 pmyou are very foward thinking, and after going over these comments I can’t help but say the items you are addressing are very controversial–so, obviously you will get those funny comments from people who wouldn’t support women unless they were one, I guess. Women are held to a material standard yet really it is up to the woman to see herself in that light or not. I ignore it, and stay knowledgeable about feminist/equalist issues . I think it’s very cool what you’re doing here though, why it’s acceptable for a man to be pro gay marriage but no pro-woman is beyond me.
Comment by Alyssa December 26, 2007 @ 5:00 pm”being biologically incapable of pregnancy is a privilege — because our society makes it easier for men to have sex without consequences than it does for women.”
Comment by dnxx1 December 26, 2007 @ 5:03 pmNo. It depends what way you look at it. Women can abort if they don’t want it, and keep (and the man will pay child support) if they do want it. In both cases, the man loses. Better luck next time.
The man “loses?” What does he lose, the freedom to not take responsibility for his actions? The freedom to pump it and dump it? The fact that you bring up abortion but not the legal battles behind it tells us a lot about your level of intelligence.
YOU try again. Don’t come on here and try to be condescending to the readers who disagree with you. Only I can do that.
Comment by profeministmale December 26, 2007 @ 5:10 pmAlyssa, I am the left’s version of Rush Limbaugh and these guys are, whether they agree or disagree, are going to tune in and read because, quite frankly, I doubt they have anything better to do with their lives …the best way to engage these MRA idiots is to make fun of them …for living in their parents’ basement and not going anywhere.
Thanks for your comments. 🙂
Comment by profeministmale December 26, 2007 @ 5:11 pmDn – and again, you sit there and whine, okay, while I am actually out doing shit for the world? There are two types of people in the world — those who bitch and moan, and those who’ve got the power to change things.
Guess which you are? When does your welfare check arrive this month, buddy?
Comment by profeministmale December 26, 2007 @ 5:13 pm”…the best way to engage these MRA idiots is to make fun of them …for living in their parents’ basement and not going anywhere.”
Comment by dnxx1 December 26, 2007 @ 5:22 pmI’m not an MRA, but the best way to make fun of feminist idiots is to make fun of them for… being so ugly…and inferior.
”Dn – and again, you sit there and whine, okay, while I am actually out doing shit for the world? There are two types of people in the world — those who bitch and moan, and those who’ve got the power to change things.”
From my point of view, you’re whining. I’m teaching you the truth How do you know I’m not doing anything for the world? You and your pathetic assumptions.
OK this if funny–you say I’m on welfare, but I’m a privileged male! LOL! Oh and since it’s so awesome to make fun of people on welfare, I guess you must make fun of women on welfare. If you don’t, you’re a hypocrite. If you do, you don’t have much respect for women.
You lose again! If you have the money–which I doubt–go buy 3 years supply of IGF-1 to increase your number of brain cells, and get a hair transplant. Is your concern for women’s issue only existing because of your lack of dates? Last I checked, women don’t like bald men.
Comment by dnxx1 December 26, 2007 @ 5:27 pmI make fun of you because you’re a loser, not because you’re on welfare …and don’t be jealous of my bald head, I shave it for a good reason – because women dig it. Last time I checked, I got laid last night, while you were probably sitting there dreaming of God knows what …so, you’ve got no room to talk.
Comment by profeministmale December 26, 2007 @ 5:32 pmTo the anti-feminists who complain of “female privilege:” Learn what “privilege” means in this context.
Paul Parmenter, you accused Marc of using emotion when making the male privilege checklist. It is a FACT that women are constantly on guard against sexual assault & rape whenever they leave the house; we are told over and over how to “protect ourselves” and are blamed when something DOES happen to us. That has nothing to do with emotion and everything to do with the PRIVILEGE you have as a male – you don’t have to restrict your lifestyle to “avoid” sexual assault/rape.
Note: biological privileges are still privileges.
Here’s a better privilege checklist, IMO (sorry, Marc): http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/
It’s always funny when MRAs complain about things that would actually be SOLVED by feminism. Y’all are attacking the wrong people here.
It’s patriarchy, not feminism, that enforces strict gender roles. If you think it’s unfair that men are expected to pay on dates, embrace feminism! It’s sexist and stupid and luckily it’s becoming less socially mandatory.
Do you really think it’s unfair that men aren’t permitted by society to wear miniskirts in public? Congrats! So do feminists. Again, you are directing your anger at the wrong people. Unless, of course, you’re actually the kind of guy who’d harass a man wearing a miniskirt in public, and are just using it as an example out of convenience.
And your complaint that women value men for their material assets? Not feminist women. MRA complaints are always against traditional women and traditional gender roles. And yet they attack feminism for some reason. We oppose narrow, restrictive gender roles.
You kept asking “according to whom?!” in your responses to Marc’s checklist. You completely ignore culture and society. Women are viewed as sluts while men are studs. It’s a pervasive double-standard, and your suggestion that social values don’t count doesn’t make it go away.
This is just unbelievable: “men invest in their actions, while women choose to invest in their dress and appearance. I think that’s biology again; either way, it has nothing to do with privilege”
WTF does that have to do with biology? God, for someone who demands evidence for everything, you don’t provide any for the outlandish claims you make.
Comment by SarahMC January 2, 2008 @ 6:28 pmWomen put a lot of effort into their appearances because society REWARDS them for it. It does not reward women who develop their minds as much as it rewards men for the same thing. Even little girls absorb this message. Their looks are the most important thing about them, so they better invest heavily in their appearance because THAT’S what really matters in this world.
Oh, and p.s., male privilege is not something men ask for or earn. It’s unearned, and based on the fact that one is born male.
Comment by SarahMC January 2, 2008 @ 8:44 pmTake the biological privileges: It’s a privilege (for men) that in our culture, “sex” is considered “over” when the man climaxes. That penis-in-vagina sex is considered the be-all, end-all by society gives men privilege, because they are almost guaranteed an orgasm while women are not. Individually, men did not ask for that privilege, but they *have* it anyway. The onus is now on them to acknowledge it and work towards sexual equality.
” “sex” is considered “over” when the man climaxes. ”
Any boy who honestly believes that is one that doesn’t get laid a second time.
Comment by Renali January 4, 2008 @ 4:59 pmLooks like you pissed off a lot of aholes.
I’m trying to keep myself open to the “male perspective” yet I am always compelled to find my way back to feminism. The nasty MRA comments here suggest that I am on the right track. I think there are many issues where there is solid middle ground but each philosophy takes a different approach.
And after reading much evolutionary psychology (often exaggerated, misunderstood and maligned), I am convinced more and more that the gender war has a cultural basis and not a biological one.
You know, if people can just step the hell back, and take a breather, I think they will find that most human beings want the same things out of life.
Cheers!
Comment by spike the cat February 6, 2008 @ 11:45 pm